iv. God or a larger, ordering entity
- Interviews 2009-2010
- i. Background and relationships
- ii. Ideological residence and practice
- iii. Fate and laws of life
- iv. God or a larger, ordering entity
- v. Health, ill-health and care
- we. Faith and knowledge
- vii. Future visions and goals
- Summary i-vii
"Yes, I think that the universe evolves, the universe learns as a whole... Sort of like a fractal, like a tree, eh, it sort of... You can see us as one... When we look out into the world, we're actually looking back at ourselves and our own as well... The universe looks back at itself through us.”
What the interviewee says about a larger, ordering entity in existence. Descriptions of the divine are gathered under this theme. For the sake of readability, sometimes "god" and "he" are used in the running text, however, without taking a position on whether such a greatness actually exists or how it is in such a case. In cases where this seems to fit best, "God" is written with a capital letter.
Name for God
Such a larger coordinating body in existence is called, for example, "Universe", "God's power", "A strong God's energy", "Pure love", "A loving force", "The great life system", "Something", "Cosmos", " A higher consciousness”, “An energy”, “The universe” and “Light”.
Personal or impersonal
The picture of whether God is personal or impersonal is not clear cut. Even if this higher instance is analogous to the universe itself, it registers what is happening: "Universe that seems to know exactly what is happening", it "learns". "The universe looks back at itself through us." An interviewee believes that this "life system" can make choices:
I see humans as a small world where this person sitting here is really just a small part, admittedly a very important part, but still a small part, in an even bigger system. And it's like the big life system that chooses, and it chooses... how concretely it chooses, I don't know.
An interviewee says that she had to struggle with the question of the nature of God:
I've always had a hard time with this thing about praying to God... I've put it aside. My brain is too small, so it's impossible to understand. That's what I thought, huh. But I can't imagine that there would be an old man sitting up there, and I think so... He's such an old man... I don't think there are many people who... Maybe there are, who think so now, but... So I have sort of put… I've kept open… I'm still keeping the question open. But it tends to be that there is no personal god. So really you don't need god. If everything is one, and every part of the universe knows what every other part is doing.
After some consideration, one respondent has come to the conclusion that in any case it is not about a personal god: "Perhaps no one really knows then, if there is not a god. But then I wonder what kind of something there is, because there is something.”
Yes, no… it's an energy and a consciousness, I would say… nothing personal… no. I think... if you are going to make God personal, then you also limit God... so therefore God is impersonal", says one of the interviewees, but adds, however: "That there is something much bigger beyond me, I feel that very strongly throughout the time.”
When asked about the existence of god, one of the interviewees says that if someone can invent a technology that proves that there is a god, or with the help of equations can lead this to proof, then first she would allow herself to be convinced:
If someone convinces me, that there is a personal god sitting up there, with... yes, but okay then. But no one has done it. Because everyone who says they've talked to... I've talked to God. Well, what does he look like then? No one has met God either, yet they say they talk to him. I can't believe it huh. But if someone can develop a technology, prove to me with equations like that, then I can have a much easier time believing in it huh.
An interviewee believes that this difficulty in defining God is shared by many today:
I think... It's this again that everyone says that all Swedes say these days... I don't believe in God but I believe in some higher consciousness... And it's like that, then... Yes, in that form... I've gone out of the Church of Sweden, for example, a few years ago, so I don't... don't believe in God in that sense... But of course I do otherwise, yes.
A more personal description reads:
Yes, both. No, it's not personal in the sense that I'm sort of talking to my god, this Augustine thing, that it's really an address and dialogue, so I don't have that. But on the other hand, of course... my image of God is still that it knows everyone by name, still in some way, and still gives everyone opportunities to... So it still has some kind of personal appeal, even if... Yes, so all people are counted in some way , or that is, there is an awareness of you as a person, that is, it is not anonymous in the way that it is just a kind of blind goodness, but it is a goodness that also feels, or a light that also feels... Where every ray of sunshine somehow still is on its way to YOU somehow.
I have a… Not the god we worship in church, or, no, not THAT… I don't believe in God, or Jesus, as a PERSON like that. I don't have that faith. But I believe this... God is within YOU, within everyone. And then, just this one... The message is love for all, it is MY faith. And then that we are all little divine beings, more or less.
One respondent compares God to a supervisor or teacher: "If you say that you reach your goal and become an angel, for example, then I believe that it is like the angel's boss in some way, who constantly teaches everyone around him about love." The same respondent continues, however: "But it's just a force so that in a way... you say you have God within you... He's like everywhere, so maybe it's not him, but it's probably some force that is everywhere."
Height above all dualities
Gender pronouns don't fit God: "He's everywhere, so maybe it's not a he, but it's some force that's everywhere..." "But I can't imagine that there would be an old man up there." God is neither evil nor good: “So there is no good and evil, there is no such duality, because God is everything, even evil so to speak. So it is only us who see evil as evil, because that contradiction does not exist in God.”
God's Extent
The interviewees agree that this larger instance, whether it is personal or impersonal, has a huge extent. Existence itself can be said to be this god. Everything is included in this system, everything and everyone are parts of the same body of deity. The universe is a single living entity, where physical reality is the physical aspect of God. One respondent refers to how this has been described in the Bible:
The tree that grows over here is like nothing but God. It's not like there's a tree standing there, and somewhere else God is standing, and if he wants to, he can pull that away. But it is part of his being. And this is really... Thoughts like this are also found in Christianity... Paul is right... Because it is in God that we live and exist...
We meet God, among other things, through our fellow human beings, who are partial aspects of this all-encompassing deity: "But if EVERYTHING is God, then you live in a constant correspondence with God. When we meet a fellow human being… so it is a partial aspect of god…” “Our individualized self that is only a part of God's self. So we are, so to speak, part of God's self.”
It is possible to feel a deep connection with the entire creation, as everything in existence is connected by visible or invisible ties. This brings a sense of meaning and community:
Yes, it has to do with the fact that everything is then connected, if you are then into this with thoughts and feelings and everything like that, then just like the whole world is connected, even... I mean there are different waves of life, with man, with the animal kingdom, with the plant kingdom, and with the mineral kingdom, and they are somehow more connected than one might think.
No one is ever separated from God. No one needs to feel alone. It also becomes natural to share, even of one's possessions. The conviction takes on an ethical meaning:
I don't feel alone, so, alone SO... I don't feel separated from... but I feel like I'm a part of... So life becomes MORE meaningful, it becomes more meaningful to SHARE, for example. Because everything I do, I'm actually doing it to myself, because I'm connected to everything... I'm not separated. It's not like that... Oh, MY stuff, like, like this huh.
God's relationship to us
God favors no one, but neither does He reject anyone. For this god, it makes no difference whether the individual believes in him or not. God does not discriminate between people:
It shines light on you whether you really know it... That all people still have some kind of... a personal ray of light that comes to them, without them even knowing it, they may not be religious at all, may not be interested in anything spiritual perspective, but they still get the help they need.
Although it is a god described in predominantly impersonal terms, it is still not a god that can be doubted. It is possible to experience a comfort and security in relation to this higher authority.
God is just. He operates through the laws of nature, which for the respondents also includes the idea of reincarnation and the law of karma. Therefore, it can be argued that God is someone who helps us along the way, towards the goal of becoming more humane. That he contributes to our suffering along the way, he does this out of love. However, he would not let anyone suffer for what someone else has done. Nor will he allow us humans to blow ourselves and the planet up in the air, for example, says one respondent: "He has nothing to gain from us all disappearing, what is he going to do then. Then he has no one to coach later."
God is described in several places in contrast to the church's image of God and the new spirituality's image of God is emphasized as then as superior. The Christian conception of God diminishes him, for example by attributing to him human-like qualities:
I remember, for example, one occasion, I was at a church service outdoors on a fine summer day, and then there was a... well, it was even a deacon, and in his sermon he said, for example, like this: God gets SAD about people do this or that then. Oh! Then I felt that it was a terribly bad level at that. That's not how God works... If you dare to have an opinion about how God works, he won't be sad. So, yes I thought yes it was a real low water mark.
God has no opportunity to intervene and change the destiny of the individual. But from another perspective, it is still possible to see everything as a collaboration or communication with God, where even the painful experiences are part of a remaking of man. That this is something God participates in out of love:
He helps us further, and there is nothing else to develop on than suffering. And the faster we learn that it is love and humanity that matters, and peace, he will show us the way. And since we cannot learn unless we suffer, this will continue. So it's out of love.
We are like cells in God's body and just as we ourselves are not aware of each cell in our body, neither is God aware of us:
Without God, if we say so, has nothing to do with us really /laughs/… in the way that… I mean, we have nothing to do with the individual cell in our body. It's not like the cell is begging, but still... but the cell lives in symbiosis with us. It gets what it needs. It is like a system that it is part of. In the same way, we are part of these larger systems without God, if we say so, being aware of where... We know that these cells exist. But I don't know... I don't know anything ABOUT these cells. I don't know how they see, or where they sit, or anything. I just know that they exist somehow. We then have roughly the same relationship to the corresponding higher being that we are part of as cells and components then.
God helps us but the time perspective is different. There is no immediate relief or release from the difficult on offer. Even if the individual experiences lifelong suffering, this is only a fraction of her entire development:
You can probably say that God, if you WANT to, you can say that... Can't you come in and help... But I do... It's just that... We think about ourselves... Do you think in a one-life- perspective, then eighty years is a very long time. If you think in terms of eternity, it is very short, VERY short indeed.
How the respondents communicate with God
The individual may feel guided. These are people who are invisible to the individual but who can assist her in various ways. Their answers or advice are heard as "voices" or "words", but not in a way that seems morbid. The existence of a god is possible in parallel with other communication like this:
I believe in God, but I'm still like that… ouch. I experience things, which are... for example, a lot of guidance. When I say that, what do I mean by that? That I can ask for things. Ahh, I haven't had time for coffee in the morning. It would be good to be invited to coffee, like this. And so every place I go to… You can have some coffee over there. Like that. But also that I can ask so-called guides then... it feels as if there are people who are with me. Which answers. They don't answer... I don't hear voices and so on... But they answer in some way in my head. There are words. And how do I know that? I don't know, but somehow words come faster than I can think /snaps fingers/. Or comes before thought, perhaps.
One of the respondents tells how such guidance is a central part of her everyday life:
I feel completely guided... I ask for help all the time... I ask for help daily, with different, what problems I have, what I need help with, I ask for it. Then it comes to me, in the form of a meeting with a person who tells me something, like... Ahh, okay, thanks, now I got on.
She also uses this type of communication in her work as a healer. Since she is unsure of exactly how it works, she turns to many different agencies at the same time with her prayers:
But like when I stand and give healing, then before the healing, I ask Jesus Christ, God and all my guardian angels and guides for help, because I don't really have... I don't know what it is. I know there is something higher helping me and guiding me, but I don't really know what it is.
One way to determine if a guidance is correct is to wait until you have received the same message from three different directions:
Then you can be guided in a lot of other, fantastic ways. By people saying things to you. Or that you have to get it in many different ways before you understand. Three different people have to say the same thing to you, at different times, for you to understand that... well, okay, now it's the third person who says it to me, now maybe I should start listening to this guidance.
When asked if there is a god to whom we can pray, an interviewee answers by referring to the Bible. In the Sermon on the Mount it is said that God already knows what a person will ask for. God already knows what we need. This means that prayer becomes somewhat secondary, the interviewee believes. The prayer can be used as a form of self-care:
Yes, prayer has one, not only outwardly seen like that, but it also has a healing... for the soul, our OWN soul, and prayer as such in ALL contexts does you good, for everyone... Since many don't think that... I am not religious enough to pray, but in my case I pray, not to become a better person or anything, but I pray to heal MY soul.
The Theocide Problem
The question of how there can be a god when there is so much misery in the world, the so-called theodicy problem, that question is wrongly stated, according to one informant:
They're talking about God, they're talking about, like, ONE supreme being who has all... total power over man and everything in the world and stuff like that. How can he be omnipotent and good at the same time. He must either be not good or not all-powerful… While… From my point of view, if I may express myself so presumptuously, there is… there is no evil in the happening of apparently… apparently bad or evil things. But there is a reason why evil happens.
Even the most unpleasant events are explained in this way, although it is important to think about who you share these analyzes with:
An ongoing problem is, for example, the extermination camps during the Third Reich, the Second World War. Jews, gypsies and homosexuals were persecuted and gassed to death and such. If there is ANY justice in the world, it wouldn't happen, would it? This is the theodicy problem. But if reincarnation is reality, then one can imagine that there is a reasonable explanation. But it is very sensitive. I never talk about it with other people who are not into these ways of thinking. Because then most of them rage in anger... So that should probably be avoided. But as an explanation of the theodicy problem, it works very well. I can't find anyone better anyway.
Christians have a tendency to submit to God and expect Him to come and sort out their problems. They are also too focused on how they are doing in this one life, and fail to see that this is only a small piece of a much larger panorama. In addition, they do not understand that the individual himself is responsible for his fate:
So, if you see this life as the only one, it becomes so incredibly significant... Oh, I'm having such a hard time... and well... and you don't see the BIG perspective... That first of all, I've been guilty of them here the difficulties, and secondly, I have to solve this somehow. Don't become some kind of infantile idiot who falls on his knees and prays for God to come and fix everything.
With the new spirituality, the image of God changes, what he can and cannot do, and thus also the expectations the individual can have about someone who will fix problems and set things right:
But the whole new age, I think, then you have to reevaluate this, if-there-is-a-god-who-sees-me idea. It's a bit shady... Yes, we kind of think that then God SHOULD step in and fix the problems in the world. And it is an image of God that still makes a distinction between, here is the world and somewhere else is God, and then he can go in and tinker there, if he wants, or he leaves it alone.
Two gods
One of the respondents believes that the state of the world shows that there must be a competing force in existence: "But I believe in more than just god, if you say so, so I'm not a monotheist in the sense that there is a god and so is it humanity, or what.”
The world is indeed created by a kind of higher power, or powers, but it was not intended so to speak as it now looks, it was not intended as... the original as divine creation... In that case it would have been all good, and actually a kind of perfection actually... So an imperfect world must reflect an imperfect creator, if you now believe that it is a creator, or vice versa.
Angels, etc
Although God may seem somewhat abstract, there are however numerous invisible individuals with whom the individual may have a personal relationship and who are described as having more active, caring qualities. Examples of this are angels, guardian angels, "guides" or spiritual guides, who can get in touch with a person in a more direct and tailored way and help and support them. Rather, it is with such individuals that we can experience a personal contact:
No, well, I believe, and know and feel, that there are other helpers... So you are taken care of, you are. And have help, and can receive support and guidance, if you can open yourself up to it then... So yes there is a lot of comfort and security in getting, like... who is not a personal god.
One of the interviewees describes that she got a new image of such angels, compared to how she thought of them when she was growing up:
For a very long time, I had an image of heaven that, like, well, there were some dusty angels sitting there. You know those old-fashioned angels, with big wings and hoods, and they didn't know anything about this life, and they were just old-fashioned and yeah... But it's changed completely.
Here, even former relatives or friends, who have died and are now in the spiritual dimension between two incarnations, can take on the task of guiding or assisting us. An interviewee emphasizes how it is precisely former relatives who act as helpers from the spiritual side: "But I recognize them from a few lives. Yes, so I think I know... That that was probably the father in that life. It feels so. But maybe there are angels too.”
When the individual has to leave the spiritual world and reincarnate in a physical body, she is assisted by sympathetic and highly developed individuals who are on the other side. These are likened to "a heavenly council". Sometimes these individuals may need to motivate or persuade the person to incarnate. One of the informants refers to such a testimony she heard:
So now it's time for you to go down again. No, I can avoid it, I don't want to now... Because it wasn't fun. But you have to, you still have this to learn and stuff like this, so they had to sit down anyway, even though they didn't think it was so much fun at the time.
There are also perfect souls, who no longer need to incarnate in the physical world for their development, but who have an interest in, for example, teaching us who are still here. These can sometimes communicate via so-called "channels", as mentioned above. Some animals, eg dolphins, can be highly developed and act as a "guide" for humans. One of the interviewees has come into contact with this:
A different kind of therapy you could say I've been through. I have been with a channel like this that we talked about before. A woman who, well, she can see past lives, and she has various guides then, including a dolphin. And yes, it's great fun.
Our planet is seen as a living organism, which has parental qualities:
A lot of people say they think it's 2012, or that it's going to hell, and doom and all that... I don't believe THAT. I believe that our Mother Earth has the resources to cope... Even how we destroy the environment, destroy and... So I believe that there is still something that makes it heal.
Life exists on planets other than ours. Individuals from these worlds visit Earth. They have come further in development and have a more advanced technology. Their involvement increased after World War II, when a country used atomic bombs in warfare for the first time. Authorities in various countries are aware of these visits, but have so far chosen to conceal this from the citizens. These extraterrestrial visitors show us great care, for example they prevent various disasters from happening or mitigate their effects. But visitors' patience may be limited:
They don't want to babysit for us, but we still need some help huh... I think they've quarantined us, because we're so very aggressive here. It is also said. I believe that, it actually sounds logical. Because we ARE aggressive, we are at war and we are doing it.
The divine in man
God's consciousness can be likened to the sum of these our higher spiritual aspects. Human beings also have "a higher self" or "a higher self" which, while we are incarnated in the physical world, is on a spiritual level. It exists "in the higher layers somewhere, and is a being of light just like Jesus or any other of these great ones." This relationship is described in a song by the artist Tomas DiLeva:
Well, I've certainly experienced that God is something very big, which you can never understand. So just give up. You just have to accept it, you can't understand it. But at the same time, Tomas DiLeva is right when he... I don't know if you've ever listened to him... but at least he wrote a song called Everyone is Jesus.
We all have "an atomic spark" that survives death. This spark has an eternal existence and incarnates again and again.